“To submit two additional virtues, you will need to break this into two distinct essays.”

“ou know I have been thinking about this since I posted last and I am going to edit a little but leave these two as virtues. I can see where they could be considered aspects of hospitality BUT…

I think to practice modesty and respect in a situation around others, be it at your home or a guest somewhere is definately using these as aspects of hospitality for sure. However, I think beyond that.

To practice modesty and respect in the presence of yourself alone would be considered virtues. It is easy sometimes to “put on our best face” or “be on our best behavior” when around someone, but to practice modesty and respect when alone and not in a situation where hospitality comes into play is honestly good virtues and I will just edit my essay a bit to include why I feel this way.

Your comments made me think and I really appreciate that.

Thanks so much!”

“ou know in re-reading this I can see your point clearly on this with hospitality and moderation. Now you have me thinking….

I may not be so quick to turn this one in without some editing.

Thank you!

Also…with the Muslim/conforming…

I would voluntarily try to respect them by trying to conform to their preference when in their presence over there. Being forced to conform involuntarily is in turn disrespectful and not hospitable at all…IMO

I guess it takes a mutual respect sometimes for things to work properly. On can go do overkill either way.

I came up with the “attire” mentioned above spur of the moment and with little sleep. LOL…I hope no one thinks I #1 dress that way and #2 am condemning or disrepecting those who choose TO dress that way.

I think I better get some sleep. I am not even making sense to myself anymore. LOL

Again…thanks”

“I picked the Muslim enclaves/locales for two reasons; one was because it was a bit further outside your home culture, the other was because it there have been definite cases of violence against women not conforming to those standards (my least favorite example being American servicewomen in Saudi Arabia). It’s something I have mixed feelings about, personally.

As for the second part, I’m not certain I’ve seen anyone wear all black with spikes to an ADF event, and pentagrams might invite ADF Wiccanophobia (mostly kidding).

I personally would call those hospitality (and moderation, and I could shoehorn in a few others) — but your reasoning makes sense. You may want to add a summary of your reasons for separating it out to the above essay before submitting it.”

“To answer you second question first, if I were visiting a conservative Muslim enclave I would dress modestly as close to their preference as possible. If they prefer burka, I would do my best to accommodate. If I felt I could not dress in accordance with their preference, I would ask their forgiveness and perhaps even ask one of the females to help me locate proper attire. I am just real picky about this type of thing. Let’s say I was invited to a nudist camp in which they feel it is rude to wear clothing around them. If I am not comfortable in doing so, I simply would turn down the invitation with an explanation as to why. I know this may be extreme to some, but I guess I am just anal about it or something. I mostly just ask my host or the ones in charge of events or whatever, what is considered to be proper and respectful attire, and I make my best attempt to honor that.

How is modesty or respect different than hospitality? Mind you, the two certainly do play a healthy role in being a good guest AND host as well for that matter. However, I feel I take this to another area outside of hospitality when the situation arises to show respect and modesty OUTSIDE of a host/guest situation and place it in social settings among strangers and people of various beliefs and cultures. To be as well, they are a big part of representation. Grant you hospitality could be considered as much too, but let me try to use an example:

Say I am invited to a huge fund raiser in the state capitol. I was chosen because the head of the fund raiser is trying to bring together as many belief systems as possible and draw media attention to the various belief systems all pulling together for a just cause. There are various forms of media there, interviewing, taking pictures and the event will be on live TV during the evening news. I am there among every religion and belief system I can think of and am representing ADF via my Grove (mind you I do not have one yet but this is just an example). This is the Bible Belt of the grand USA and there is already a prejudice against anything but good old southern Baptist. If I show up in some god awful garb, all black, mini skirt, choke chains and leather spikes, pentagrams painted on my forehead, and be a rude, self centered, loud, irritating know it all and condemn everyone there for not believing such as I…..and there I am on TV calling the Christians assholes as I chew my gum, cuss like a sailor all in the name of ADF….

How much would that help people here in this area accept and attempt to understand ADF in general and would they be pleased knowing I have a Grove in the area that holds rituals less than a mile from their church?

However, if I show up dressed modestly, show respect to everyone there, speak soundly, maturely and respectfully, LISTEN to others and be polite when answering questions about my beliefs, my Grove and ADF…I think I could be of more benefit to the Pagan community and possibly aid in more acceptance in this area by being modest and respectful at a public event in the eyes of the people in the community. One may say this is simply hospitality, but I think when it bleeds into public situations it is not so much hospitality and more modesty and respect. “

“I’ve been reading all of your essays, but only this one has gotten me to pipe up with questions.

First off, how do you see respect (and the engendered modesty) as separate from hospitality? As written above, I personally perceive it as falling under the “being a good guest” parts of hospitality, but a case could be made for separating them.

Second question, meant seriously: you are visiting a conservative Muslim enclave, either in the US or elsewhere (perhaps even visiting Saudi Arabia itself). How do you dress? (My belief, forgive me if I’m wrong, is that you are female, meaning that they’d prefer you wear a burka.)

The rest of your essays rocked — particularly the hospitality one — though I was not attempting to evaluate them on the official criteria. :-)”